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TF CBT and EMDR.

Roy catchpole

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Anyone know about any of these treatments for PTSD, (from an academic or personal experience perspective) and whether any or all are efficacious?
 

Patrick

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I know nothing about EMDR - but the other two (as a combination) do have some standing as far as I can tell...
with Trauma focused CBT, as in a lot of personal theories, a lot depends on the quality of the therapist and whether you find them good or alienating...

When I helped set up groups for PTSD sufferers in Cwmbran we had help from Combat Stress and the local CMHT - ended up with two separate small groups - one for the ex military and one for the civilians...
The general feedback from both was that they got a fair bit from the CBT, it made their lives easier to manage - without eliminating the effects of PTSD altogether.

This paper is a meta analysis of which is most effective...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16740177
 

franticwithworry

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I used TF CBT a long time ago. Like most therapies, some people found it useful and others not so much. I'd never heard of EMDR so did a little research before commenting. My comment isn't based on any kind of experience or training, but I would think that again, like anything else, it will help some people and not others. None of these therapies are universally effective, though some are more useful than others. If you are wanting to use one or other yourself, it's really about finding out what it really involves and making a decision about what you might think help you.

You know yourself better than any therapist, how you learn and process information. It should be possible to try something that you think might help and opt out if you find it doesn't.
 

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CBT is not much good for long standing trauma. It works by dealing with the here and now anxiety. Its helpful to give coping mechanisms at the time of anxiety with a view to getting through in time. Its normally 12 wks and ive had it. You have to talk about the trauma, over and over I suppose to make it less scary and overwhelming then it gives you the things to put in place so you can cope (theoretically) from day to day. Its worth a go...
 

Roy catchpole

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CBT is not much good for long standing trauma. It works by dealing with the here and now anxiety. Its helpful to give coping mechanisms at the time of anxiety with a view to getting through in time. Its normally 12 wks and ive had it. You have to talk about the trauma, over and over I suppose to make it less scary and overwhelming then it gives you the things to put in place so you can cope (theoretically) from day to day. Its worth a go...
Yeah. This resonates with my experience Fredzie. For us who experience this particular form of torture, the dread we feel when the doorbell or telephone goes, or the sweats in the early morning from a horror dream and the flashbacks that strike you when doing the shopping or just enjoying a concert or having a meal at a friend's or the tears that force themselves to the surface in the middle of a conversation and because you are a man and expected to be strong, or because you are an educated older, wise person, how can you be swayed by mere emotions - you have to make your excuses for running away by pretending you need to have a piss. These are long-term, irreducible to a control mechanisms, and shameful to share or talk about with ordinary folk who have not been there. A severed leg? Yes. Everyone can see you've had a trauma - so "Tell us about it, mate." But a broken heart? A ripped-off trust? Well - that's women's work - men get physical shocks, not emotional ones... No. CBT may work for some things, but not for this. It refuses to be repressed by instigating a series of engineered psychological responses. I attended a conference this afternoon at which one of the speakers said, "I'm currently leading a PTSD group for those who are suffering from this form of pain." I thought, "Great. I'll have a chat with him later. See if I can join in." I spoke to him later, sharing my deep secret and shame. His response? "Sorry. my group is for the military." Severed legs, you see? Not decapitated emotional lives.
 

Matt

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EMDR referring to Eye Movement Desensitisation Reprocessing which is essentially about visualising traumatic situations in a controlled environment and learning to 'reprogram' them so as they are no longer traumatic.

I've known several people who have had this treatment for trauma related to extreme phobias, and they have found it very effective. Although it's questionable what value the 'eye movement' element has. I've been considering getting this therapy myself but I'd have to go private and right now I don't know where the money is going to come from what with all the legal fees for upcoming cases..

The closest that I practice is a form of lucid dream therapy. Whenever I have a nightmare, I 'wake up' in the dream and control it. I change the scenery from something traumatic to something pleasant or comical, the dream characters to spectres less scary and suddenly the nightmare is a little less scary. In lieu of actual therapy it's probably the best that I've got.

I've had cbt in the past for various issues but for whatever reason it's unfortunately never worked for me
 

Fredzie

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Yeah. This resonates with my experience Fredzie. For us who experience this particular form of torture, the dread we feel when the doorbell or telephone goes, or the sweats in the early morning from a horror dream and the flashbacks that strike you when doing the shopping or just enjoying a concert or having a meal at a friend's or the tears that force themselves to the surface in the middle of a conversation and because you are a man and expected to be strong, or because you are an educated older, wise person, how can you be swayed by mere emotions - you have to make your excuses for running away by pretending you need to have a piss. These are long-term, irreducible to a control mechanisms, and shameful to share or talk about with ordinary folk who have not been there. A severed leg? Yes. Everyone can see you've had a trauma - so "Tell us about it, mate." But a broken heart? A ripped-off trust? Well - that's women's work - men get physical shocks, not emotional ones... No. CBT may work for some things, but not for this. It refuses to be repressed by instigating a series of engineered psychological responses. I attended a conference this afternoon at which one of the speakers said, "I'm currently leading a PTSD group for those who are suffering from this form of pain." I thought, "Great. I'll have a chat with him later. See if I can join in." I spoke to him later, sharing my deep secret and shame. His response? "Sorry. my group is for the military." Severed legs, you see? Not decapitated emotional lives.
Jees walls on every side... thats really awful Roy.
It is not understood, however it is no different from any other ptsd, certain things set it off or nothing at all....
 

Roy catchpole

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People say to me, "You're a Church of England priest and you're strong and healthy and alive. You seem OK You're not suffering from mental decline or anything like that. To top it all, you've had an apology from the court for a wrongful prosecution. You're on the board to two charities who deal with vulnerable children and adults both locally and nationally. So why does your church want to put you through a Risk Assessment before you can return to your priestly duties."
They are confused. They can't see why I'm not actively ministering to them - presiding at the Holy Communion for example.
Just take a quick look at the title of the document produced by Paul Butler, Bishop of Durham. This is the text to which all C of E risk-assessors are required to conform. THE TITLE: (see how an innocent priest feels about this) Here Goes: -
PRACTICE GUIDANCE:
RISK ASSESSMENT FOR
INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY POSE

RISK TO CHILDREN OR ADULTS
I am not prepared to go before a religious kangaroo court whose basic assumption is that I am a person who 'May pose a risk to children or adults.'
Do you blame me?

Or is it just my PTSD talking?
 

Patrick

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People say to me, "You're a Church of England priest and you're strong and healthy and alive. You seem OK You're not suffering from mental decline or anything like that. To top it all, you've had an apology from the court for a wrongful prosecution. You're on the board to two charities who deal with vulnerable children and adults both locally and nationally. So why does your church want to put you through a Risk Assessment before you can return to your priestly duties."
They are confused. They can't see why I'm not actively ministering to them - presiding at the Holy Communion for example.
Just take a quick look at the title of the document produced by Paul Butler, Bishop of Durham. This is the text to which all C of E risk-assessors are required to conform. THE TITLE: (see how an innocent priest feels about this) Here Goes: -
PRACTICE GUIDANCE:
RISK ASSESSMENT FOR
INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY POSE

RISK TO CHILDREN OR ADULTS
I am not prepared to go before a religious kangaroo court whose basic assumption is that I am a person who 'May pose a risk to children or adults.'
Do you blame me?

Or is it just my PTSD talking?
I don't blame you, of course not. - but they are like people from the 1950s transported to our time insisting on talking about spastics and the mentally handicapped.
They need to be challenged on their language use.
and what you have said here is a good way of challenging them.

The Henriques report should be quoted at them, and it has much to say on the nature of how language shapes beliefs and behaviours. "Victim & perpetrator" being a major case in point.
Until the Church are forced to re-engage with real people and stop duplicating dogma in their policies and guidance - this non-reflective and deeply embedded (self) protection system will remain their bedrock way of being.

What they say here (in blue) is not so bad - it does include the word "May" - and one could argue that this wording should be applied to all priests, bishops, deans, archbishops etc. as they all qualify equally under this heading.
the fact is that we know that in practice they use this term to hide their prejudice against those who may have been accused and the case thrown out, - who are actually no more likely to be a risk than any of them.
 

Roy catchpole

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Absolutely - it should either apply to all priests or not at all.
However, one would not be wrong to suppose that most of these high-ranking clergy are good if not very good at the English language. The embedded (quote) word 'May' need not be there at all (unless as you suggest it ought to be for all - and I don't disagree with that).
A less pejorative and prejudiced title might be,
PRACTICE GUIDANCE:
RISK ASSESSMENT FOR
INDIVIDUALS WHO WILL BE WORKING WITH
CHILDREN OR ADULTS
After all, one does not wish to impugn base motives to good people who care to work (often at some sacrifice) with children and adults - such as all teachers, priests, social workers, doctors and nurses et al.
The implication that a falsely accused person 'MAY POSE A RISK' is a prejudgement that is 99% likely to lead to a negative assessment by an already risk-averse panel of amateurs whose main interests are twofold; first to preserve their own skins and second, that of the institution who pays their wages/gives them power. Which one of us, who have already been damaged by a corrupt prosecution and legal system, would be happily prepared to go through this gauntlet?
And yet, if you want to work again, what option do you have?
 

Roy catchpole

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EMDR referring to Eye Movement Desensitisation Reprocessing which is essentially about visualising traumatic situations in a controlled environment and learning to 'reprogram' them so as they are no longer traumatic.

I've known several people who have had this treatment for trauma related to extreme phobias, and they have found it very effective. Although it's questionable what value the 'eye movement' element has. I've been considering getting this therapy myself but I'd have to go private and right now I don't know where the money is going to come from what with all the legal fees for upcoming cases..

The closest that I practice is a form of lucid dream therapy. Whenever I have a nightmare, I 'wake up' in the dream and control it. I change the scenery from something traumatic to something pleasant or comical, the dream characters to spectres less scary and suddenly the nightmare is a little less scary. In lieu of actual therapy it's probably the best that I've got.

I've had cbt in the past for various issues but for whatever reason it's unfortunately never worked for me
Hi Matt. Glad to see some of this stuff is working for you. Whatever it takes to keep you alive and kicking, mate. I really do believe we're gonna get there in the end. We have spirit and will never be defeated.
 
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